WEBVTT Kind: captions; Language: en 1 00:00:01.060 --> 00:00:04.850 Good morning everyone. Am I audible? 2 00:00:04.850 --> 00:00:06.690 Good morning everyone. 3 00:00:06.690 --> 00:00:11.350 We welcome you all to the second day of the SDG 4 Seminar 2022. 4 00:00:11.350 --> 00:00:15.680 Yesterday we had different workshops and lectures on the various 5 00:00:15.680 --> 00:00:18.800 perspectives of Education for Emergency. 6 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:23.880 Continuing on the same, our keynote speaker for today from India will share 7 00:00:23.880 --> 00:00:29.640 about what is dialogue, the nature of dialogue and how dialogue can become 8 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:34.490 central to education in all its aspects for us educators. 9 00:00:34.490 --> 00:00:40.130 I'm very happy to invite my teacher Shashidhar Jagadeesan, fondly 10 00:00:40.130 --> 00:00:44.890 called by everyone Shash or Shashi who will give us more insights 11 00:00:44.890 --> 00:00:48.330 on this topic from his experience as teacher. 12 00:00:48.330 --> 00:00:51.720 Shashidhar has been working at Centre for Learning, 13 00:00:51.720 --> 00:00:54.860 teacher runs school for the last 27 years. 14 00:00:54.860 --> 00:01:00.240 The school is based on the educational philosophy of the late Jiddu Krishnamurthy. 15 00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:05.970 Shashidhar has PhD in Mathematics from Syracuse University and has taught mathematics 16 00:01:05.970 --> 00:01:10.020 to students from middle school to undergraduate level. 17 00:01:10.020 --> 00:01:15.880 Once again, warm welcome on behalf of the entire SDG 4 team and audience. 18 00:01:15.880 --> 00:01:25.310 We look forward to hearing you. Over to you, Shash. 19 00:01:25.310 --> 00:01:27.320 Good morning, everybody. 20 00:01:27.320 --> 00:01:33.700 Thank you, Heidi, and thank you Abitha for giving me this chance to share 21 00:01:33.700 --> 00:01:38.240 notions on dialogue and the philosophy of our school. 22 00:01:38.240 --> 00:01:46.920 I'll begin by sharing screen. Yeah,. 23 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:53.810 Yeah, it's visible. Yeah, yeah. 24 00:01:53.810 --> 00:02:08.340 So the search for shared meaning is as old as humanity itself. 25 00:02:08.340 --> 00:02:14.220 Anthropologists talk about the circle of discourse that Native American 26 00:02:14.220 --> 00:02:21.230 tribes participated in, and perhaps to this day, many small tribal company 27 00:02:21.230 --> 00:02:26.450 communities continue to engage in such dialogue. 28 00:02:26.450 --> 00:02:35.180 Key elements of such dialogue are that they are non hierarchical, all participants 29 00:02:35.180 --> 00:02:43.230 are respected and listening and speaking are equally important. 30 00:02:43.230 --> 00:02:49.150 One of the most important texts that expound Advaita Vedanta philosophy, 31 00:02:49.150 --> 00:02:54.150 non dualistic philosophy from India are the open issues. 32 00:02:54.150 --> 00:03:00.330 The root meaning of this Sanskrit word is to sit near, the idea being 33 00:03:00.330 --> 00:03:05.170 that the teacher and the student would sit together and go into fundamental 34 00:03:05.170 --> 00:03:11.380 questions about life and living. 35 00:03:11.380 --> 00:03:16.660 All of us are of course familiar with the Socratic dialogue and the intent 36 00:03:16.660 --> 00:03:24.760 of reaching state of euphoria or puzzlement where all previously held assumptions 37 00:03:24.760 --> 00:03:28.790 are shown to be either wrong or inadequate. 38 00:03:28.790 --> 00:03:39.330 This state of puzzlement or not knowing would then lead to understanding. 39 00:03:39.330 --> 00:03:47.200 In this presentation, I will be drawing from my experience as teacher at CFL, where 40 00:03:47.200 --> 00:03:53.570 we as group have been exploring the role of dialogue in education and how best 41 00:03:53.570 --> 00:03:59.490 to translate our understanding of the philosophy that animates the school into our 42 00:03:59.490 --> 00:04:04.260 daily life and into the curriculum of the school. 43 00:04:04.260 --> 00:04:10.440 While many elements of what I mentioned earlier inform our dialogue at the outset 44 00:04:10.440 --> 00:04:16.000 itself, I'd like to acknowledge that our notions of dialogue have been gratefully 45 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:21.860 influenced by the physicist David Bohm and the philosophy of the school by the 46 00:04:21.860 --> 00:04:25.460 teachings of the philosopher J Krishnamurthy. 47 00:04:25.460 --> 00:04:30.500 In fact, they both have had fascinating dialogues which have been published 48 00:04:30.500 --> 00:04:34.960 as books and are now easily available on YouTube. 49 00:04:34.960 --> 00:04:39.380 As and when appropriate, I will refer to their work. 50 00:04:39.380 --> 00:04:47.290 The title of this talk comes from the following notion of dialogue that David Bohm had. 51 00:04:47.290 --> 00:04:54.410 The word dialogue derived from 2 roots, dia which means through and logos which 52 00:04:54.410 --> 00:04:59.750 means the world or more particularly the meaning of the word. 53 00:04:59.750 --> 00:05:06.060 The image it gives is river of meaning flowing around and through the participants. 54 00:05:06.060 --> 00:05:08.980 Any number of people can engage in dialogue. 55 00:05:08.980 --> 00:05:12.670 One can even have dialogue with oneself. 56 00:05:12.670 --> 00:05:18.310 In this presentation, I would like to explore how the flow of meaning 57 00:05:18.310 --> 00:05:23.570 can happen in the classroom, in creating community of learners, and 58 00:05:23.570 --> 00:05:30.330 most importantly, in learning about ourselves. 59 00:05:30.330 --> 00:05:38.190 At CFL, interaction with students take place in variety of ways, formal and informal. 60 00:05:38.190 --> 00:05:44.510 I'd like to begin to share how dialogue plays role in formal learning Places 61 00:05:44.510 --> 00:05:51.530 and will focus on two aspects of learning for which I feel dialogue is relevant, 62 00:05:51.530 --> 00:05:59.120 understanding content and the well-being of the learner. 63 00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:06.400 The learning session often begins with the teacher asking question or making brief presentation, 64 00:06:06.400 --> 00:06:11.540 following which there's free flow of conversation among all of us. 65 00:06:11.540 --> 00:06:15.180 Questioning is constantly encouraged and the role of the 66 00:06:15.180 --> 00:06:21.500 teacher as an authority figure is kept light. 67 00:06:21.500 --> 00:06:27.460 Meaning is gradually built as this dialogue goes on with the teacher bringing in 68 00:06:27.460 --> 00:06:32.720 knowledge and skill interwoven with the students thinking process. 69 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:39.550 All this to enable the flow of meaning among the participants. 70 00:06:39.550 --> 00:06:45.090 Needless to say, while flow of meaning is a key to our educational philosophy, we use 71 00:06:45.090 --> 00:06:51.850 many other pedagogical tools like observation, experimental work, hands on learning, 72 00:06:51.850 --> 00:06:58.270 project based work, drill and continuous assessment to make sure that the understanding 73 00:06:58.270 --> 00:07:04.690 translates into mastery and retention of knowledge. 74 00:07:04.690 --> 00:07:10.450 Strangely, while understanding is the key to the acquisition, transfer 75 00:07:10.450 --> 00:07:15.890 and creation of knowledge, it's a bit of mystery how exactly insight 76 00:07:15.890 --> 00:07:22.470 or the aha moment actually takes place. 77 00:07:22.470 --> 00:07:25.650 So it might be worthwhile asking if there's something 78 00:07:25.650 --> 00:07:28.490 that can be done to facilitate this. 79 00:07:28.490 --> 00:07:32.220 I would like to suggest there are some essential ingredients 80 00:07:32.220 --> 00:07:38.260 to the dialogue that make understanding possible. 81 00:07:38.260 --> 00:07:42.120 First and foremost, the relationship between the teacher and 82 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:46.820 student is based on affection and mutual respect. 83 00:07:46.820 --> 00:07:53.340 I feel it's absolutely necessary that we create an atmosphere of care in the classroom. 84 00:07:53.340 --> 00:07:57.740 This cannot happen when we use traditional motivators like 85 00:07:57.740 --> 00:08:02.080 fear, competition, reward and punishment. 86 00:08:02.080 --> 00:08:14.210 Not only do they prevent learning, they end up brutalising the learner. 87 00:08:14.210 --> 00:08:18.940 There has to be an atmosphere of listening. 88 00:08:18.940 --> 00:08:21.480 I will quote Krishnamurthy on this. 89 00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:25.520 I do not know if you have ever examined how you listen. 90 00:08:25.520 --> 00:08:31.740 It doesn't matter to what, whether to bird's, to the wind, in the leaves, to the rushing 91 00:08:31.740 --> 00:08:38.060 waters, or how you listen to dialogue with yourself, to your conversation in various 92 00:08:38.060 --> 00:08:43.430 relationships, with your intimate friends, your wife or husband. 93 00:08:43.430 --> 00:08:47.710 If we try to listen, we find it extraordinarily difficult because 94 00:08:47.710 --> 00:08:52.750 we are always projecting our opinions and ideas, our prejudices, 95 00:08:52.750 --> 00:08:57.230 our background, our inclinations, our impulses. 96 00:08:57.230 --> 00:09:01.170 When they dominate, we hardly listen to what is being said. 97 00:09:01.170 --> 00:09:04.620 In that state there is no value at all. 98 00:09:04.620 --> 00:09:09.020 One listens and therefore learns only in state of attention. 99 00:09:09.020 --> 00:09:15.580 A state of silence in which this whole background is in abeyance, is quiet. 100 00:09:15.580 --> 00:09:23.300 Then it seems to me it is possible to communicate. 101 00:09:23.300 --> 00:09:29.900 There is tension, I'd like to say, while the flow of meaning is very key, more 102 00:09:29.900 --> 00:09:34.950 importantly for us is these notions of listening and attention which inform all 103 00:09:34.950 --> 00:09:40.050 aspects of our education and the basis of the whole school. 104 00:09:40.050 --> 00:09:43.580 Again, to quote Krishnamurthy, when your teacher tells you 105 00:09:43.580 --> 00:09:46.860 to pay attention in class, what does he mean? 106 00:09:46.860 --> 00:09:52.030 He means that you must not look out of the window, that you must withdraw your attention from 107 00:09:52.030 --> 00:09:57.160 everything else and concentrate wholly on what you're supposed to be studying. 108 00:09:57.160 --> 00:10:02.400 Well, when you're absorbed in novel, your whole mind is so concentrated on 109 00:10:02.400 --> 00:10:06.620 it that for moment you have lost interest in everything else. 110 00:10:06.620 --> 00:10:09.200 This is another form of attention. 111 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:15.440 So in the ordinary sense, paying attention is narrowing down process, is it not? 112 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:20.000 But I think there's different kind of attention, state of mind 113 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:23.900 which is not exclusive but does not shut out anything. 114 00:10:23.900 --> 00:10:30.830 And because there is no resistance, the mind is capable of much greater attention. 115 00:10:30.830 --> 00:10:35.330 I'm sure many of you had taught and have had sessions where 116 00:10:35.330 --> 00:10:37.590 this flow of meaning has taken place. 117 00:10:37.590 --> 00:10:43.260 There's great sense of satisfaction when this happens. 118 00:10:43.260 --> 00:10:52.370 Now let us turn our attention to the issue of the well-being of the learner. 119 00:10:52.370 --> 00:10:54.770 Heidi was sharing with us. 120 00:10:54.770 --> 00:10:59.510 That is key ingredient of primary education in Finland. 121 00:10:59.510 --> 00:11:03.510 It would be nice to learn about more about the notion of well-being 122 00:11:03.510 --> 00:11:05.920 that is shared among finished teachers. 123 00:11:05.920 --> 00:11:14.410 I will share our understanding of well-being actually more about what causes ill being. 124 00:11:14.410 --> 00:11:20.110 Curiously, as the learning process is taking place simultaneously, 125 00:11:20.110 --> 00:11:23.070 there's the creation of learner. 126 00:11:23.070 --> 00:11:29.200 I understand that key aspect of successful learning is the idea of metacognition, 127 00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:32.920 that is, an awareness of the very process of learning. 128 00:11:32.920 --> 00:11:36.060 I too feel this is absolutely necessary. 129 00:11:36.060 --> 00:11:39.620 However, I'm suggesting something slightly different. 130 00:11:39.620 --> 00:11:45.100 What I mean is that each one of us feels that there's learner who is separate 131 00:11:45.100 --> 00:11:49.360 from the learning and to whom learning is happening. 132 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:56.350 That is, we are adding layers of information to our sense of self. 133 00:11:56.350 --> 00:12:03.230 In school context, the learner is filled with insecurities, 134 00:12:03.230 --> 00:12:09.800 comparisons, inadequacies or pride, arrogance. 135 00:12:09.800 --> 00:12:17.430 These happen in benign school such as CFL or indeed most of the schools in Finland. 136 00:12:17.430 --> 00:12:29.250 Being child friendly is not enough to avert all these self related notes. 137 00:12:29.250 --> 00:12:33.590 This concern of ours is not limited to the classroom. 138 00:12:33.590 --> 00:12:39.650 We all have visceral sense of being an individual self to whom life is happening. 139 00:12:39.650 --> 00:12:45.590 This health is always separating itself from everything, the world, 140 00:12:45.590 --> 00:12:50.030 nature, and even its very own emotions and thoughts. 141 00:12:50.030 --> 00:12:55.490 By its very nature, then, the self is divisive and it's not big leap to see that 142 00:12:55.490 --> 00:13:00.620 when there is division there's bound to be alienation and conflict. 143 00:13:00.620 --> 00:13:06.530 We feel as long as we live life in this manner, there can be no well-being 144 00:13:06.530 --> 00:13:10.590 for either the individual or the collective. 145 00:13:10.590 --> 00:13:16.710 The one thread of dialogue is to regularly question the reality of the learner. 146 00:13:16.710 --> 00:13:22.530 Is there really learner separate from learning or is this an illusion? 147 00:13:22.530 --> 00:13:27.260 Over the course of this presentation, I will keep revisiting this team of 148 00:13:27.260 --> 00:13:35.500 the Divisive self, moving to creating learning community. 149 00:13:35.500 --> 00:13:38.740 Interacting with students in formal learning spaces is 150 00:13:38.740 --> 00:13:42.130 only small part of what we do at CFL. 151 00:13:42.130 --> 00:13:46.840 We are semi residential community and this places several 152 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:50.040 demands on all members of the community. 153 00:13:50.040 --> 00:13:56.500 We need to share, for example, the philosophy of the school with parents and students. 154 00:13:56.500 --> 00:14:01.750 We need to take care of our campus, be responsible for all creatures that we share 155 00:14:01.750 --> 00:14:11.320 life with, make sure there's food on the table, care for our bodies and minds intelligently 156 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:17.120 deal with human interactions with all their complexities and all the many little 157 00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:22.780 things that make up our daily life. 158 00:14:22.780 --> 00:14:27.860 The further challenge we've taken upon ourselves is that we can do this. 159 00:14:27.860 --> 00:14:32.210 We have to do this without using the standard tools that humans have used 160 00:14:32.210 --> 00:14:38.390 to manage societies fear, comparison, reward and punishment. 161 00:14:38.390 --> 00:14:46.930 We would like to work together in cooperative manner, being sensitive to each other. 162 00:14:46.930 --> 00:14:53.050 After all, school is microcosm of society and we feel what we do at CFL 163 00:14:53.050 --> 00:14:57.180 should reflect the society we wish to create and live in. 164 00:14:57.180 --> 00:15:02.360 How does one go about doing this? 165 00:15:02.360 --> 00:15:08.680 I feel the key to this is the ability to see together the supplies from the mundane chores 166 00:15:08.680 --> 00:15:18.360 of daily life to dealing with misdemeanours that could be quite harmful. 167 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:23.660 I'd like to say that seeing the together is different from common notions 168 00:15:23.660 --> 00:15:30.710 that Dr Cooperation like agreeing to disagree, one person, one vote, tolerance 169 00:15:30.710 --> 00:15:34.090 to diverse view, and reaching consensus. 170 00:15:34.090 --> 00:15:38.730 All of these somehow retain our individual sense of self, which 171 00:15:38.730 --> 00:15:48.280 I pointed out earlier is fundamentally divisible. 172 00:15:48.280 --> 00:15:53.720 The act of seeing together seems to happen when we put aside self-interest, 173 00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:59.070 our particular preferences, opinions, beliefs, and conclusions. 174 00:15:59.070 --> 00:16:03.230 Once we see something together, then we can act from sense of shared 175 00:16:03.230 --> 00:16:10.800 meaning and cooperation then becomes effortless. 176 00:16:10.800 --> 00:16:16.360 I'd like to spend few minutes on the idea of shared meaning. 177 00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:21.820 I would like to distinguish it from myths, beliefs and ideologies. 178 00:16:21.820 --> 00:16:27.400 Humans have had this incredible capacity to come together over ideas not just 179 00:16:27.400 --> 00:16:32.980 about how to live, but also ideas about what lies beyond death. 180 00:16:32.980 --> 00:16:37.860 This coming together is often limited and invariably collapses 181 00:16:37.860 --> 00:16:43.650 once the ideas lose their valence. 182 00:16:43.650 --> 00:16:48.770 On the other hand, if there's a seeing together that comes with common 183 00:16:48.770 --> 00:16:54.470 insight, something not based on ideas and concepts, it will allow 184 00:16:54.470 --> 00:16:59.510 us to distinguish the real from the falls. 185 00:16:59.510 --> 00:17:03.860 It has an inbuilt feature of self correction. 186 00:17:03.860 --> 00:17:08.900 For us, dialogue is the essential tool to think and see together 187 00:17:08.900 --> 00:17:16.940 in questioning and gently sceptical way. 188 00:17:16.940 --> 00:17:23.440 In dialogue we can discover the need to completely set aside our personal conditioning, 189 00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:30.180 to die to our own beliefs and formulated experiences, making it possible to see in that 190 00:17:30.180 --> 00:17:34.890 unique mirror of relationship the whole truth of what is. 191 00:17:34.890 --> 00:17:41.540 Then, if we share in the same spirit of inquiry, intensity and affection, we may actually 192 00:17:41.540 --> 00:17:47.610 find ourselves thinking together, not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing, but seeing, 193 00:17:47.610 --> 00:17:55.040 understanding and thereby sharing as one the same reality. 194 00:17:55.040 --> 00:17:58.870 The last section I'd like to go into learning about oneself, which 195 00:17:58.870 --> 00:18:03.390 is the most important part of our philosophy. 196 00:18:03.390 --> 00:18:07.750 Perhaps at the cost of repeating myself, I'd like to say the starting 197 00:18:07.750 --> 00:18:12.610 point of CFL's educational philosophy is that society at large is the 198 00:18:12.610 --> 00:18:16.250 result of the relationship among its members. 199 00:18:16.250 --> 00:18:22.590 If the members function from deep sense of division and are driven constantly by the 200 00:18:22.590 --> 00:18:30.900 urge for self protection, then the society we create will reflect this. 201 00:18:30.900 --> 00:18:37.060 So we have to begin with ourselves and see if it's possible to live differently. 202 00:18:37.060 --> 00:18:42.260 This demands great humility, vulnerability and an alertness to our 203 00:18:42.260 --> 00:18:50.490 conditioning and its push towards self centeredness. 204 00:18:50.490 --> 00:18:54.990 I'd like to translate it to what's happened at CFL, for example. 205 00:18:54.990 --> 00:18:58.630 So, as Abita said, CFL is teacher on school. 206 00:18:58.630 --> 00:19:03.870 It has flat structure and there's no hierarchy among its teachers. 207 00:19:03.870 --> 00:19:08.120 We say dialogue is essential in two ways. 208 00:19:08.120 --> 00:19:12.910 If the teacher body is to be truly non hierarchical, then it's extremely 209 00:19:12.910 --> 00:19:18.840 important that there's flow of meaning among the teachers. 210 00:19:18.840 --> 00:19:24.900 Equally important, dialogue is also space to share our observation but the nature 211 00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:30.620 of our conditioning, for us to confront the common consciousness that we share and 212 00:19:30.620 --> 00:19:38.050 come upon an intelligence that will inform our actions. 213 00:19:38.050 --> 00:19:43.230 In exploring the limitations of our conditioning, perhaps together we'll 214 00:19:43.230 --> 00:19:49.630 be able to create new culture spontaneously and effortlessly, in which 215 00:19:49.630 --> 00:19:55.680 we can live with sensitivity, insight, and love. 216 00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:58.530 Thank you and stop sharing now.