WEBVTT Kind: captions; Language: en

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Good morning everyone.
Am I audible?

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Good morning everyone.

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We welcome you all to the second
day of the SDG 4 Seminar 2022.

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Yesterday we had different
workshops and lectures on the various

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perspectives of Education for Emergency.

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Continuing on the same, our keynote
speaker for today from India will share

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about what is dialogue, the nature of
dialogue and how dialogue can become

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central to education in all
its aspects for us educators.

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I'm very happy to invite my teacher
Shashidhar Jagadeesan, fondly

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called by everyone Shash or Shashi
who will give us more insights

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on this topic from his
experience as teacher.

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Shashidhar has been working
at Centre for Learning,

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teacher runs school for the last 27 years.

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The school is based on the educational
philosophy of the late Jiddu Krishnamurthy.

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Shashidhar has PhD in Mathematics from
Syracuse University and has taught mathematics

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to students from middle
school to undergraduate level.

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Once again, warm welcome on behalf of
the entire SDG 4 team and audience.

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We look forward to hearing you.
Over to you, Shash.

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Good morning, everybody.

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Thank you, Heidi, and thank you Abitha
for giving me this chance to share

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notions on dialogue and the
philosophy of our school.

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I'll begin by sharing screen.
Yeah,.

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Yeah, it's visible.
Yeah, yeah.

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So the search for shared meaning
is as old as humanity itself.

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Anthropologists talk about the circle
of discourse that Native American

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tribes participated in, and perhaps
to this day, many small tribal company

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communities continue to
engage in such dialogue.

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Key elements of such dialogue are that
they are non hierarchical, all participants

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are respected and listening and
speaking are equally important.

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One of the most important texts that
expound Advaita Vedanta philosophy,

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non dualistic philosophy
from India are the open issues.

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The root meaning of this Sanskrit
word is to sit near, the idea being

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that the teacher and the student would
sit together and go into fundamental

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questions about life and living.

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All of us are of course familiar with
the Socratic dialogue and the intent

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of reaching state of euphoria or puzzlement
where all previously held assumptions

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are shown to be either
wrong or inadequate.

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This state of puzzlement or not knowing
would then lead to understanding.

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In this presentation, I will be drawing
from my experience as teacher at CFL, where

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we as group have been exploring the
role of dialogue in education and how best

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to translate our understanding of the
philosophy that animates the school into our

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daily life and into the
curriculum of the school.

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While many elements of what I mentioned
earlier inform our dialogue at the outset

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itself, I'd like to acknowledge that our
notions of dialogue have been gratefully

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influenced by the physicist David Bohm
and the philosophy of the school by the

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teachings of the
philosopher J Krishnamurthy.

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In fact, they both have had fascinating
dialogues which have been published

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as books and are now
easily available on YouTube.

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As and when appropriate, I
will refer to their work.

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The title of this talk comes from the following
notion of dialogue that David Bohm had.

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The word dialogue derived from 2 roots,
dia which means through and logos which

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means the world or more
particularly the meaning of the word.

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The image it gives is river of meaning
flowing around and through the participants.

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Any number of people
can engage in dialogue.

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One can even have dialogue with oneself.

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In this presentation, I would like
to explore how the flow of meaning

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can happen in the classroom, in
creating community of learners, and

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most importantly, in
learning about ourselves.

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At CFL, interaction with students take place
in variety of ways, formal and informal.

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I'd like to begin to share how dialogue
plays role in formal learning Places

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and will focus on two aspects of learning
for which I feel dialogue is relevant,

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understanding content and
the well-being of the learner.

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The learning session often begins with the teacher
asking question or making brief presentation,

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following which there's free flow
of conversation among all of us.

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Questioning is constantly
encouraged and the role of the

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teacher as an authority
figure is kept light.

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Meaning is gradually built as this dialogue
goes on with the teacher bringing in

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knowledge and skill interwoven
with the students thinking process.

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All this to enable the flow of
meaning among the participants.

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Needless to say, while flow of meaning is
a key to our educational philosophy, we use

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many other pedagogical tools like observation,
experimental work, hands on learning,

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project based work, drill and continuous
assessment to make sure that the understanding

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translates into mastery
and retention of knowledge.

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Strangely, while understanding is
the key to the acquisition, transfer

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and creation of knowledge, it's a
bit of mystery how exactly insight

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or the aha moment actually takes place.

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So it might be worthwhile
asking if there's something

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that can be done to facilitate this.

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I would like to suggest there
are some essential ingredients

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to the dialogue that make
understanding possible.

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First and foremost, the
relationship between the teacher and

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student is based on
affection and mutual respect.

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I feel it's absolutely necessary that we
create an atmosphere of care in the classroom.

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This cannot happen when we
use traditional motivators like

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fear, competition, reward and punishment.

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Not only do they prevent learning,
they end up brutalising the learner.

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There has to be an
atmosphere of listening.

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I will quote Krishnamurthy on this.

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I do not know if you have
ever examined how you listen.

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It doesn't matter to what, whether to bird's,
to the wind, in the leaves, to the rushing

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waters, or how you listen to dialogue with
yourself, to your conversation in various

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relationships, with your intimate
friends, your wife or husband.

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If we try to listen, we find it
extraordinarily difficult because

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we are always projecting our
opinions and ideas, our prejudices,

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our background, our
inclinations, our impulses.

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When they dominate, we hardly
listen to what is being said.

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In that state there is no value at all.

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One listens and therefore learns
only in state of attention.

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A state of silence in which this whole
background is in abeyance, is quiet.

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Then it seems to me it is
possible to communicate.

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There is tension, I'd like to say,
while the flow of meaning is very key, more

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importantly for us is these notions of
listening and attention which inform all

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aspects of our education and
the basis of the whole school.

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Again, to quote Krishnamurthy,
when your teacher tells you

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to pay attention in
class, what does he mean?

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He means that you must not look out of the
window, that you must withdraw your attention from

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everything else and concentrate wholly
on what you're supposed to be studying.

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Well, when you're absorbed in novel,
your whole mind is so concentrated on

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it that for moment you have
lost interest in everything else.

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This is another form of attention.

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So in the ordinary sense, paying attention
is narrowing down process, is it not?

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But I think there's different
kind of attention, state of mind

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which is not exclusive but
does not shut out anything.

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And because there is no resistance, the
mind is capable of much greater attention.

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I'm sure many of you had taught
and have had sessions where

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this flow of meaning has taken place.

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There's great sense of
satisfaction when this happens.

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Now let us turn our attention to the
issue of the well-being of the learner.

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Heidi was sharing with us.

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That is key ingredient of
primary education in Finland.

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It would be nice to learn about
more about the notion of well-being

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that is shared among finished teachers.

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I will share our understanding of well-being
actually more about what causes ill being.

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Curiously, as the learning process
is taking place simultaneously,

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there's the creation of learner.

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I understand that key aspect of successful
learning is the idea of metacognition,

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that is, an awareness of
the very process of learning.

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I too feel this is absolutely necessary.

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However, I'm suggesting
something slightly different.

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What I mean is that each one of us feels
that there's learner who is separate

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from the learning and to
whom learning is happening.

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That is, we are adding layers of
information to our sense of self.

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In school context, the learner
is filled with insecurities,

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comparisons, inadequacies
or pride, arrogance.

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These happen in benign school such as CFL
or indeed most of the schools in Finland.

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Being child friendly is not enough
to avert all these self related notes.

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This concern of ours is not
limited to the classroom.

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We all have visceral sense of being an
individual self to whom life is happening.

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This health is always separating
itself from everything, the world,

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nature, and even its very
own emotions and thoughts.

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By its very nature, then, the self is
divisive and it's not big leap to see that

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when there is division there's
bound to be alienation and conflict.

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We feel as long as we live life in
this manner, there can be no well-being

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for either the individual
or the collective.

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The one thread of dialogue is to regularly
question the reality of the learner.

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Is there really learner separate
from learning or is this an illusion?

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Over the course of this presentation,
I will keep revisiting this team of

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the Divisive self, moving to
creating learning community.

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Interacting with students
in formal learning spaces is

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only small part of what we do at CFL.

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We are semi residential
community and this places several

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demands on all members of the community.

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We need to share, for example, the philosophy
of the school with parents and students.

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We need to take care of our campus, be
responsible for all creatures that we share

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life with, make sure there's food on the table,
care for our bodies and minds intelligently

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deal with human interactions with all
their complexities and all the many little

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things that make up our daily life.

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The further challenge we've taken
upon ourselves is that we can do this.

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We have to do this without using the
standard tools that humans have used

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to manage societies fear,
comparison, reward and punishment.

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We would like to work together in cooperative
manner, being sensitive to each other.

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After all, school is microcosm of
society and we feel what we do at CFL

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should reflect the society
we wish to create and live in.

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How does one go about doing this?

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I feel the key to this is the ability to see
together the supplies from the mundane chores

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of daily life to dealing with
misdemeanours that could be quite harmful.

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I'd like to say that seeing the
together is different from common notions

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that Dr Cooperation like agreeing to
disagree, one person, one vote, tolerance

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to diverse view, and reaching consensus.

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All of these somehow retain our
individual sense of self, which

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I pointed out earlier is
fundamentally divisible.

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The act of seeing together seems to
happen when we put aside self-interest,

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our particular preferences,
opinions, beliefs, and conclusions.

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Once we see something together, then
we can act from sense of shared

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meaning and cooperation
then becomes effortless.

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I'd like to spend few minutes
on the idea of shared meaning.

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I would like to distinguish it
from myths, beliefs and ideologies.

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Humans have had this incredible capacity
to come together over ideas not just

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about how to live, but also ideas
about what lies beyond death.

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This coming together is often
limited and invariably collapses

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once the ideas lose their valence.

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On the other hand, if there's a
seeing together that comes with common

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insight, something not based on
ideas and concepts, it will allow

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us to distinguish the real from the falls.

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It has an inbuilt feature
of self correction.

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For us, dialogue is the essential
tool to think and see together

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in questioning and gently sceptical way.

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In dialogue we can discover the need to
completely set aside our personal conditioning,

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to die to our own beliefs and formulated
experiences, making it possible to see in that

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unique mirror of relationship
the whole truth of what is.

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Then, if we share in the same spirit of
inquiry, intensity and affection, we may actually

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find ourselves thinking together, not
necessarily agreeing or disagreeing, but seeing,

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understanding and thereby
sharing as one the same reality.

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The last section I'd like to go
into learning about oneself, which

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is the most important
part of our philosophy.

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Perhaps at the cost of repeating
myself, I'd like to say the starting

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point of CFL's educational philosophy
is that society at large is the

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result of the relationship
among its members.

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If the members function from deep sense
of division and are driven constantly by the

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urge for self protection, then the
society we create will reflect this.

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So we have to begin with ourselves and
see if it's possible to live differently.

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This demands great humility,
vulnerability and an alertness to our

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conditioning and its push
towards self centeredness.

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I'd like to translate it to what's
happened at CFL, for example.

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So, as Abita said, CFL
is teacher on school.

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It has flat structure and there's
no hierarchy among its teachers.

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We say dialogue is essential in two ways.

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If the teacher body is to be truly
non hierarchical, then it's extremely

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important that there's flow
of meaning among the teachers.

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Equally important, dialogue is also space
to share our observation but the nature

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of our conditioning, for us to confront
the common consciousness that we share and

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come upon an intelligence
that will inform our actions.

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In exploring the limitations of our
conditioning, perhaps together we'll

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be able to create new culture
spontaneously and effortlessly, in which

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we can live with sensitivity,
insight, and love.

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Thank you and stop sharing now.