WEBVTT Kind: captions; Language: en 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:04.000 Good morning to the SDG4 seminar audience. 2 00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:10.320 It's it's pleasure to be be in Jyväskylä and I see 3 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:13.840 the seminar doing so well. 4 00:00:13.840 --> 00:00:19.920 Thank you all for coming to this session. 5 00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:27.720 We want to bring you some current topical, authentic insights from 6 00:00:27.720 --> 00:00:34.020 teacher education in three very different contexts 7 00:00:34.020 --> 00:00:36.290 we have. 8 00:00:36.290 --> 00:00:43.030 We have the possibility of hearing from teacher educator colleagues working in Rwanda, 9 00:00:43.030 --> 00:00:51.430 China and India about some pressing pressing issues, exciting, exciting 10 00:00:51.430 --> 00:00:59.160 news and exchange some thoughts about about the value of teacher education and where 11 00:00:59.160 --> 00:01:04.350 teacher education might be might be heading heading towards. 12 00:01:04.350 --> 00:01:07.550 We had wonderful exchange this morning over breakfast, 13 00:01:07.550 --> 00:01:15.020 breakfast and, and we shared our some of our 14 00:01:15.020 --> 00:01:23.140 career stories and, and we were reminded how essentially similar we 15 00:01:23.140 --> 00:01:28.720 are and how, how we ask similar, questions and, and so on. 16 00:01:28.720 --> 00:01:34.580 So I hope this can be moment of sharing but also understanding how 17 00:01:34.580 --> 00:01:42.110 different the contexts can be for doing teacher education. 18 00:01:42.110 --> 00:01:48.850 I will very briefly introduce you our our dear, dear guests here. To my first to my 19 00:01:48.850 --> 00:01:54.900 left is Professor Krishna Haresh from Azim Premji University in India. 20 00:01:54.900 --> 00:02:01.240 He has taught lot of different subjects as expertise across across teacher 21 00:02:01.240 --> 00:02:04.830 education and he's currently working with teacher education development 22 00:02:04.830 --> 00:02:11.660 and at institutional level. So welcome, Krishna. 23 00:02:11.660 --> 00:02:16.160 Professor Wang Xinghua from Beijing Normal University. 24 00:02:16.160 --> 00:02:22.700 She's an expert in psychology, working with issues of child development, early childhood 25 00:02:22.700 --> 00:02:30.670 science education, early learning, and educational psychology especially. 26 00:02:30.670 --> 00:02:32.790 Warm welcome. 27 00:02:32.790 --> 00:02:40.250 And then last but not least, very fresh PhD in education, Barthelemy Bizimana. 28 00:02:40.250 --> 00:02:43.450 He comes from the University of Rwanda College of Education. 29 00:02:43.450 --> 00:02:48.450 He's philosopher interested in philosophy of education. 30 00:02:48.450 --> 00:02:51.870 Welcome, Barthelemy. Thank you. 31 00:02:51.870 --> 00:02:54.980 So let's start. 32 00:02:54.980 --> 00:03:01.080 I would like each of you to tell what brought you to work with teacher education 33 00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:05.290 and what motivates you to work with teacher education. 34 00:03:05.290 --> 00:03:10.710 And you could also maybe present something very topical from your own institution 35 00:03:10.710 --> 00:03:14.410 or from from the country you're working in at the moment. 36 00:03:14.410 --> 00:03:23.390 What is, what is there in teacher education for you at the moment? 37 00:03:23.390 --> 00:03:27.670 38 00:03:27.670 --> 00:03:31.880 Good morning. 39 00:03:31.880 --> 00:03:39.760 What brought me to Like Education is the love of young people and 40 00:03:39.760 --> 00:03:48.720 their growth, to see them growing intellectually and being able to 41 00:03:48.720 --> 00:03:53.870 to become more effective in this complex world. 42 00:03:53.870 --> 00:04:01.620 And it's this compassion that brought me to like the work of teachers, even 43 00:04:01.620 --> 00:04:10.170 if their salary is not that which everyone would run after. 44 00:04:10.170 --> 00:04:13.250 I think love is always a good reason, isn't it? 45 00:04:13.250 --> 00:04:17.940 How about Wang Xinghua? 46 00:04:17.940 --> 00:04:23.960 Also, I'm working at Beijing Normal University and my research 47 00:04:23.960 --> 00:04:27.360 area is mainly about early childhood education. 48 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:34.180 So in responding to the first question, what brought me to teacher education, I think I should 49 00:04:34.180 --> 00:04:42.340 provide few words about my education and my I completed my bachelor and master degree in 50 00:04:42.340 --> 00:04:49.290 psychology in Developmental Psychology at Beijing Normal University and my PhD work was 51 00:04:49.290 --> 00:04:53.770 about educational psychology at the University of Munich. 52 00:04:53.770 --> 00:04:59.110 After completing my PhD work, I decided to go back 53 00:04:59.110 --> 00:05:02.670 to China to teach at Beijing Normal University. 54 00:05:02.670 --> 00:05:09.290 And Beijing Normal University was established in 1902, which initiated 55 00:05:09.290 --> 00:05:13.270 teacher education in higher in China's higher education. 56 00:05:13.270 --> 00:05:20.670 So just as the University of Jyväskylä, which pioneered teacher education in Finland, so 57 00:05:20.670 --> 00:05:27.120 I think it was somehow natural for me to start doing teacher education. 58 00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:34.560 Although Beijing Normal University has become a comprehensive and research intensive university 59 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:43.040 after development for over century, but I think teacher education or 60 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:49.260 is still major part and and the basic discipline at Beijing Normal University. 61 00:05:49.260 --> 00:05:56.490 So that's why I'm working in the area of early childhood education education. 62 00:05:56.490 --> 00:05:58.290 Thank you so much. 63 00:05:58.290 --> 00:06:01.100 I think University of Jyväskylä and Beijing Normal have something in common. 64 00:06:01.100 --> 00:06:02.900 Yeah. 65 00:06:02.900 --> 00:06:05.900 Home, home base of, of teacher education in the country. 66 00:06:05.900 --> 00:06:07.700 Yeah. Yes. 67 00:06:07.700 --> 00:06:10.570 How about Krishna? 68 00:06:10.570 --> 00:06:12.590 I wish I could say grand story. 69 00:06:12.590 --> 00:06:15.770 I woke up one morning and felt like I needed to be teacher educator. 70 00:06:15.770 --> 00:06:17.810 That's not my story. 71 00:06:17.810 --> 00:06:21.510 It was quite by accident that I became teacher educator. 72 00:06:21.510 --> 00:06:25.130 You know, there's joke we share among ourselves in India. 73 00:06:25.130 --> 00:06:27.760 Those do something. Those are capable of doing something. 74 00:06:27.760 --> 00:06:29.610 Go earn some money. 75 00:06:29.610 --> 00:06:33.330 Those who can't do much go teach, and those who can't do 76 00:06:33.330 --> 00:06:35.870 even that properly become teacher educator. 77 00:06:35.870 --> 00:06:37.670 OK. 78 00:06:37.670 --> 00:06:44.420 Because you can always give advice to other people about teaching, so and. 79 00:06:44.420 --> 00:06:48.110 I kind of believe in that a little bit. 80 00:06:48.110 --> 00:06:52.280 So yeah, it just seemed an automatic transition from being teacher 81 00:06:52.280 --> 00:06:55.470 for many years, working with young people. 82 00:06:55.470 --> 00:06:59.570 It was accidental that I became teacher educator, and then I kind of reverse 83 00:06:59.570 --> 00:07:02.670 reasoned it out that I should be one and I should remain one. 84 00:07:02.670 --> 00:07:05.170 That's how I became teacher educator. 85 00:07:05.170 --> 00:07:09.910 A lot of things that went into 17 years of working with school children of different 86 00:07:09.910 --> 00:07:16.920 ages that remained tacit, that remained as something that we did. 87 00:07:16.920 --> 00:07:23.400 This whole, what is water business, how to make explicit all the good practises that 88 00:07:23.400 --> 00:07:31.570 exist in teaching became my interest and how to look at education in the country and 89 00:07:31.570 --> 00:07:34.750 and the real needs of the country and what kind of teachers that does the country need 90 00:07:34.750 --> 00:07:39.540 became my interest and so I remain a teacher educator. 91 00:07:39.540 --> 00:07:41.700 That's me, thank you. 92 00:07:41.700 --> 00:07:43.500 Thank you so much for sharing. 93 00:07:43.500 --> 00:07:47.560 And maybe you also touched upon some, some of the topical questions. 94 00:07:47.560 --> 00:07:51.720 I mean, India is huge country and there is debate on how teachers should 95 00:07:51.720 --> 00:07:54.710 be educated and what kind of teachers are needed and yeah. 96 00:07:54.710 --> 00:07:56.510 And so on. 97 00:07:56.510 --> 00:07:58.680 I wonder what's the hot topic in China at the moment? 98 00:07:58.680 --> 00:08:03.600 What are you talking about in your coffee rooms and seminars as teacher educators? 99 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:09.180 I think one of the most concerned, I think one of the most 100 00:08:09.180 --> 00:08:13.850 concerned topic is professionalism of teachers. 101 00:08:13.850 --> 00:08:17.750 So we are also talking about how to prepare teachers, how to teach 102 00:08:17.750 --> 00:08:25.470 students to better prepared for rapidly changing society and 103 00:08:25.470 --> 00:08:29.410 for society for future full of uncertainty. 104 00:08:29.410 --> 00:08:34.950 So we are talking about how to conceptualise professionalism and 105 00:08:34.950 --> 00:08:41.510 what are the key competencies a teacher should have. 106 00:08:41.510 --> 00:08:47.370 Yeah, two very, very important topics that do come across 107 00:08:47.370 --> 00:08:50.340 in the very different kinds of kinds of contexts. 108 00:08:50.340 --> 00:08:54.510 How about Rwanda? What is what is hot there in Rwanda? 109 00:08:54.510 --> 00:09:02.740 Now they are talking about competence based curriculum and when we talk of competence based 110 00:09:02.740 --> 00:09:10.850 curriculum, simply framed they understand 3H- head, 111 00:09:10.850 --> 00:09:19.340 heart and hands. Head standing for the cognitive intellectual activities, hands 112 00:09:19.340 --> 00:09:23.020 standing for skills and capabilities 113 00:09:23.020 --> 00:09:30.310 the learner is able to produce then heart standing for values, attitudes, 114 00:09:30.310 --> 00:09:35.050 emotions and social relational abilities. 115 00:09:35.050 --> 00:09:43.780 So the three H are now being incorporated into the teaching practise, 116 00:09:43.780 --> 00:09:52.250 but it is very challenging because we usually in the past focused 117 00:09:52.250 --> 00:09:55.590 on the intellectual aspects alone. 118 00:09:55.590 --> 00:10:03.890 Now they are trying to see how to include the heart and the hands, and it is very difficult 119 00:10:03.890 --> 00:10:11.910 because if you look at the curriculum closely, it is framed from the 120 00:10:11.910 --> 00:10:20.200 Western philosophical background of equalitarian system or individualistic 121 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:22.100 thinking. 122 00:10:22.100 --> 00:10:29.940 Yet the people in our situation, the society is 123 00:10:29.940 --> 00:10:33.400 somehow hierarchical. 124 00:10:33.400 --> 00:10:39.650 Everyone knows his position, even at classroom level. 125 00:10:39.650 --> 00:10:47.800 To ask this student who has been used, who obey from home to school to 126 00:10:47.800 --> 00:10:56.260 society and ask him suddenly to share knowledge in any, any equalitarian way is very much 127 00:10:56.260 --> 00:11:02.640 challenging. 128 00:11:02.640 --> 00:11:05.740 And this leads me nicely to the next questions. 129 00:11:05.740 --> 00:11:09.430 Maybe this is more related to the hands and the hard parts of teacher 130 00:11:09.430 --> 00:11:13.740 education. We have sneaked into your publications bit. 131 00:11:13.740 --> 00:11:20.460 So I have individual, individual questions for all of you while you work with early 132 00:11:20.460 --> 00:11:28.930 childhood education developments and especially on different 133 00:11:28.930 --> 00:11:33.830 pedagogical approaches or arts based methods, playful learning and so on. 134 00:11:33.830 --> 00:11:39.290 So I wanted to ask you what kind of mindset would it require from teachers 135 00:11:39.290 --> 00:11:45.870 to introduce play based learning in early childhood education? 136 00:11:45.870 --> 00:11:50.440 And what can we as teacher educators do, and what should student teachers 137 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:53.820 be able to do in order to generally bring this change? 138 00:11:53.820 --> 00:11:58.660 That is, that is something that we do want to introduce. 139 00:11:58.660 --> 00:12:00.460 Yeah, I see. 140 00:12:00.460 --> 00:12:04.280 I think in traditional Chinese culture, play and learning 141 00:12:04.280 --> 00:12:08.180 to like contradictory concepts. 142 00:12:08.180 --> 00:12:13.040 So we have Chinese proverb which says learning is something 143 00:12:13.040 --> 00:12:18.310 not, could not be played with or entertained. 144 00:12:18.310 --> 00:12:21.030 So they are really two different concepts. 145 00:12:21.030 --> 00:12:27.930 But in the 1980s, I think, I think a series of national guidelines 146 00:12:27.930 --> 00:12:32.990 established that play should be the main activity or leading activity, 147 00:12:32.990 --> 00:12:35.930 at least in early childhood education. 148 00:12:35.930 --> 00:12:43.740 So I think teachers in early childhood teachers, they have the, they have the opinion 149 00:12:43.740 --> 00:12:47.920 that plays an important way for preschool children to learn. 150 00:12:47.920 --> 00:12:53.440 And also it's main method for early childhood teachers to implement, 151 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:57.100 to carry out teaching and educational activities. 152 00:12:57.100 --> 00:13:00.640 But there are still challenges in practise. 153 00:13:00.640 --> 00:13:09.710 I think the first challenge comes from from the teachers conceptualization of play. 154 00:13:09.710 --> 00:13:18.120 I think in China we, I think in some of the teachers understandings 155 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:25.840 play, kind of activity that children they are doing some free or 156 00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:29.400 autonomous activities in when they are playing. 157 00:13:29.400 --> 00:13:34.820 So but learning on the other hand, you have to be goal oriented and 158 00:13:34.820 --> 00:13:38.540 teacher led activities implemented in the classroom. 159 00:13:38.540 --> 00:13:44.460 So for some teachers it's really a challenging task, how to integrate play 160 00:13:44.460 --> 00:13:50.330 and learning, how to scaffold children's free play to achieve some educational 161 00:13:50.330 --> 00:13:54.150 goals and how to implement teaching through play. 162 00:13:54.150 --> 00:13:59.170 So I think in practise there's such a challenge and also I think early 163 00:13:59.170 --> 00:14:04.640 childhood education is very much influenced by parents. 164 00:14:04.640 --> 00:14:10.660 Chinese parents is known as the most demanding parents in 165 00:14:10.660 --> 00:14:13.940 the world in terms of children's education. 166 00:14:13.940 --> 00:14:22.160 So they want to prepare their children in at a very early stage. 167 00:14:22.160 --> 00:14:28.560 So they sent their children to many interest classes to let their children 168 00:14:28.560 --> 00:14:38.010 to get to acquire various abilities, including sports, mathematics, dancing, 169 00:14:38.010 --> 00:14:41.210 singing or painting or something like that. 170 00:14:41.210 --> 00:14:49.030 So sometimes the early childhood teachers have to make concessions to teach some 171 00:14:49.030 --> 00:14:55.550 skills to children and well, squeezing the play space for children. 172 00:14:55.550 --> 00:14:59.270 So I think that's also the challenge. 173 00:14:59.270 --> 00:15:02.700 And thank you for contextualising the whole discussion 174 00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:04.840 around play based play based learning. 175 00:15:04.840 --> 00:15:08.500 It is, it looks very, very different in different parts of the world. 176 00:15:08.500 --> 00:15:12.750 Yeah, my question to Krishna is little bit related. 177 00:15:12.750 --> 00:15:20.780 It is also about the also so-called non academic content in teacher 178 00:15:20.780 --> 00:15:22.960 education. 179 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:28.060 Yes we do need math didactics and and language didactics and so on. 180 00:15:28.060 --> 00:15:32.780 But then there's also other things that are part of good holistic teacher education. 181 00:15:32.780 --> 00:15:39.530 How do how do you see the role of these non academic subjects? 182 00:15:39.530 --> 00:15:46.650 Yeah, I guess all of you have read a lot about what kind of dispositions and 183 00:15:46.650 --> 00:15:50.140 values teachers must have, what kind of capacities they must have. 184 00:15:50.140 --> 00:15:53.470 Teaching is strange kind of know how. 185 00:15:53.470 --> 00:15:56.100 I feel like there are lot of things in teaching that 186 00:15:56.100 --> 00:15:58.510 have to be figured out by practise, right? 187 00:15:58.510 --> 00:16:00.720 And it's not just something that you can be teaching 188 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:03.130 like lot of words like reflection. 189 00:16:03.130 --> 00:16:05.740 What kind of cognitive activity is reflection? 190 00:16:05.740 --> 00:16:07.780 I mean, how would you teach somebody how to reflect? 191 00:16:07.780 --> 00:16:10.340 These questions keep haunting us all the time, right? 192 00:16:10.340 --> 00:16:12.340 And we keep talking about, oh, planning reflection, 193 00:16:12.340 --> 00:16:14.730 teaching, and then revised replanning. 194 00:16:14.730 --> 00:16:18.080 We talk about all this, but what does it really mean? 195 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:24.420 You know, all the broad, possibly already the broad. 196 00:16:24.420 --> 00:16:26.020 We need teachers need soft skills. 197 00:16:26.020 --> 00:16:28.220 Teachers need voice. 198 00:16:28.220 --> 00:16:30.880 I mean literally volume, loudness, clarity, pitch. 199 00:16:30.880 --> 00:16:35.650 We need all this. We need capacity to hold attention. 200 00:16:35.650 --> 00:16:39.280 Now I'm going to talk about few things that come from experience and come 201 00:16:39.280 --> 00:16:44.120 from the context I've come and and the so-called non academic. 202 00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:48.330 Is that what you call non academic in maybe in the Finnish context, we would say 203 00:16:48.330 --> 00:16:53.100 arts and practical subjects actually sample, different names. 204 00:16:53.100 --> 00:16:54.900 OK. 205 00:16:54.900 --> 00:17:00.390 So I feel there are interesting skills and capacities that teacher teacher needs. 206 00:17:00.390 --> 00:17:04.750 I think teaching is kind of a performance and what do I mean by that. 207 00:17:04.750 --> 00:17:07.950 I don't mean it in with the connotation that it's artificial 208 00:17:07.950 --> 00:17:09.910 and you're posturing, you're performing. 209 00:17:09.910 --> 00:17:13.960 I don't mean it like that, but I mean it like an extremely 210 00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:16.840 art and craft based activity. 211 00:17:16.840 --> 00:17:20.800 It's like performance like dancer. 212 00:17:20.800 --> 00:17:27.050 I know many people don't like what I'm saying, but I think it is performance and 213 00:17:27.050 --> 00:17:31.130 I would like to talk little bit about the skills that go into such performance and also 214 00:17:31.130 --> 00:17:37.820 kind of few things that are dispositional that are necessary right now. 215 00:17:37.820 --> 00:17:40.600 Maybe I should talk about the disposition that I met, ideas 216 00:17:40.600 --> 00:17:43.530 and from that we can talk about the capacities. 217 00:17:43.530 --> 00:17:48.040 Yeah, and this is coming from my conversations with young 218 00:17:48.040 --> 00:17:50.000 people who want to become teachers. 219 00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:54.150 Firstly, if you don't have some kind of an impersonal affection for 220 00:17:54.150 --> 00:17:57.890 young people, maybe you should not get into teaching. 221 00:17:57.890 --> 00:18:00.110 You must. And it's not personalised affection. 222 00:18:00.110 --> 00:18:02.570 I'm not talking about liking some children or other children. 223 00:18:02.570 --> 00:18:07.250 If you don't have general compassion for humanity and, sense of affection 224 00:18:07.250 --> 00:18:11.240 for young people and care for them, I don't think you should come towards 225 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.940 teaching because it requires a lot of that. 226 00:18:15.940 --> 00:18:21.800 Secondly, what does it mean to be attentive now? 227 00:18:21.800 --> 00:18:25.500 This is question that again haunts me, especially with handling 228 00:18:25.500 --> 00:18:29.450 screens and Internet connectivities all the time. 229 00:18:29.450 --> 00:18:37.100 What is simple looking and listening and how can we teach looking and listening 230 00:18:37.100 --> 00:18:41.210 so that learning can happen and how can I teach this? 231 00:18:41.210 --> 00:18:44.330 Now this is something that the teacher must be intrigued by, not assume 232 00:18:44.330 --> 00:18:47.650 that I know all the cognitive science in the matter and I'll just go around 233 00:18:47.650 --> 00:18:50.070 and telling people that this is how it works. 234 00:18:50.070 --> 00:18:54.210 There are issues with basic attention that you struggle with today, and I feel 235 00:18:54.210 --> 00:18:59.840 that is something we need to be experimenting and exploring. 236 00:18:59.840 --> 00:19:06.730 Tenacity and persistence,I feel like if you're not tenacious, you're in trouble. 237 00:19:06.730 --> 00:19:09.790 So this is disposition that I feel like extremely important. 238 00:19:09.790 --> 00:19:11.670 You can't give up easily. 239 00:19:11.670 --> 00:19:14.570 Teaching is job in hope. 240 00:19:14.570 --> 00:19:17.970 If you're depressed, it's not going to work. 241 00:19:17.970 --> 00:19:20.330 You have to hope that people will change, society will 242 00:19:20.330 --> 00:19:23.090 change, and teaching is political action. 243 00:19:23.090 --> 00:19:25.410 That's your way of engaging with society. 244 00:19:25.410 --> 00:19:29.110 So I feel like if you don't believe in all this, it's going to be very complicated 245 00:19:29.110 --> 00:19:31.810 as teacher and will make for very terrible classroom. 246 00:19:31.810 --> 00:19:35.280 And also bad teacher educator also I mean. 247 00:19:35.280 --> 00:19:39.200 So some other simple things. 248 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:41.560 What does it mean to be organised? 249 00:19:41.560 --> 00:19:45.220 I keep seeing that our minds are chaotic. 250 00:19:45.220 --> 00:19:48.220 What does it mean to go in thinking about what I want 251 00:19:48.220 --> 00:19:50.480 to say today and how do I achieve that? 252 00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:54.610 Listening to be organised and serious about what you do. 253 00:19:54.610 --> 00:19:58.570 I mentioned the word reflective capacity. We talk about the word lot. 254 00:19:58.570 --> 00:20:00.410 I doubt it beyond the 5th sentence. 255 00:20:00.410 --> 00:20:02.790 We know how to explain it. 256 00:20:02.790 --> 00:20:05.650 What exactly is reflection? 257 00:20:05.650 --> 00:20:14.270 And now these are all the meta level capacities I'm thinking about and I'm looking at 258 00:20:14.270 --> 00:20:23.220 what kind of skills, for example, when you teach young people to become teachers, 259 00:20:23.220 --> 00:20:26.600 what are you trying to teach them now and how are you trying to teach them? 260 00:20:26.600 --> 00:20:31.030 And I feel there are ways in which you have to be that to be able to teach 261 00:20:31.030 --> 00:20:34.480 that, what you might call modelling, demonstration. 262 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:37.380 Now, if you can't be that, you can't talk about it endlessly. 263 00:20:37.380 --> 00:20:38.550 You have to allow them to be that. 264 00:20:38.550 --> 00:20:40.330 And for that you have to put them in real world situations, 265 00:20:40.330 --> 00:20:42.130 which means they have to teach more. 266 00:20:42.130 --> 00:20:44.680 So to become a, it's like talking about swimming and getting into the pool, 267 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:46.740 right? You can go on endlessly talking about the physics and 268 00:20:46.740 --> 00:20:48.870 the, and the buoyancy and all that. 269 00:20:48.870 --> 00:20:52.870 But I mean, can you just push them into the pool little bit? 270 00:20:52.870 --> 00:20:57.510 Yeah, I'll be there. Don't walk away. 271 00:20:57.510 --> 00:20:59.650 Yeah. And and help them through that. 272 00:20:59.650 --> 00:21:04.900 So I feel like these are the skills that are necessary, the disposition that are necessary 273 00:21:04.900 --> 00:21:10.040 and the skills that come with holding your body, holding your wife, you. 274 00:21:10.040 --> 00:21:12.540 I mean, in my country, people don't know how to use the blackboard. 275 00:21:12.540 --> 00:21:15.200 I mean, I don't know if you have blackboard here. Do 276 00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:16.600 you have white boards? What do you have? 277 00:21:16.600 --> 00:21:18.530 White boards, I suppose smart TV's. 278 00:21:18.530 --> 00:21:23.850 OK, so we have something called blackboard. You use chalk on it. 279 00:21:23.850 --> 00:21:27.590 It's a good old tool. Everybody can afford it. 280 00:21:27.590 --> 00:21:29.810 So how do you use this as pedagogical tool? 281 00:21:29.810 --> 00:21:32.830 I mean, many people don't know that you're speaking and 282 00:21:32.830 --> 00:21:34.630 you're writing the same thing on the board. 283 00:21:34.630 --> 00:21:38.830 I mean, even things like this, what does it mean to perform as teacher, right? 284 00:21:38.830 --> 00:21:41.290 And these are big preoccupations in my country. 285 00:21:41.290 --> 00:21:43.410 And these are things we're trying to look at. 286 00:21:43.410 --> 00:21:45.500 I'll stop here. Thank you. 287 00:21:45.500 --> 00:21:49.590 Thank you very much and thank you for bringing the meta level. 288 00:21:49.590 --> 00:21:54.070 I think you shared some really fundamental ideas that we can all 289 00:21:54.070 --> 00:21:57.010 estate traders relate, relate with immediately. 290 00:21:57.010 --> 00:22:02.210 And I think it's immediately shows the space for different kinds of pedagogies, 291 00:22:02.210 --> 00:22:07.180 different kinds of content in in teacher education. 292 00:22:07.180 --> 00:22:13.210 And then my question to Barthelemy surprise, surprise, it's about philosophy. 293 00:22:13.210 --> 00:22:18.560 You have you have done research on African philosophies in education. 294 00:22:18.560 --> 00:22:25.330 How can the African philosophies contribute to renewal of teacher education? 295 00:22:25.330 --> 00:22:30.420 And I'll give you exactly 3 minutes. 296 00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:35.830 OK, I will try to answer in that range of minutes. 297 00:22:35.830 --> 00:22:38.560 African philosophies. 298 00:22:38.560 --> 00:22:46.620 We have very big range of African philosophies and most of them are direct 299 00:22:46.620 --> 00:22:54.840 reaction to the Eurocentrism in terms of epistemological production. 300 00:22:54.840 --> 00:23:02.620 And in that sense, I don't share the idea that this can help in improving education, 301 00:23:02.620 --> 00:23:11.600 but rather I prefer the other side of this African philosophy of 302 00:23:11.600 --> 00:23:18.700 opening up to the world and sharing experiences with others. 303 00:23:18.700 --> 00:23:24.520 And this is what I profoundly believe instead of becoming an island 304 00:23:24.520 --> 00:23:28.540 and trying to justify your owner's philosophies. 305 00:23:28.540 --> 00:23:35.440 Because these things are relative most of the time and articulate 306 00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:41.740 to people, situations, space and time. And. 307 00:23:41.740 --> 00:23:48.890 I would really like to to answer to the question of my colleague here. 308 00:23:48.890 --> 00:23:54.300 How can you teach people to reflect? 309 00:23:54.300 --> 00:24:02.960 By continuing my intervention, you see, you can question your own culture, 310 00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:11.330 question your own values, question your own knowledge, doubting yourself. 311 00:24:11.330 --> 00:24:16.020 This is the beginning of the compassion towards others. 312 00:24:16.020 --> 00:24:20.140 You are not the only one you see, and others think 313 00:24:20.140 --> 00:24:22.840 like you maybe, but in different way. 314 00:24:22.840 --> 00:24:27.120 So if you question yourself, if you question your own beliefs, your own 315 00:24:27.120 --> 00:24:34.770 knowledge, this is a foundation for interculturalism. 316 00:24:34.770 --> 00:24:39.050 Wonderful, thank you. Thank you so much, so much for that. 317 00:24:39.050 --> 00:24:45.170 So it is a, both us as individuals and the questions we ask. 318 00:24:45.170 --> 00:24:51.490 But it's, it's also about recognising different ways of knowing different epistemologies 319 00:24:51.490 --> 00:24:59.710 and somehow being brave enough to engage, engage with all that. 320 00:24:59.710 --> 00:25:04.970 And I think we definitely need this in order to resist some of the global 321 00:25:04.970 --> 00:25:10.550 pressures that are put on us by the SDG monitoring or whatever markets, 322 00:25:10.550 --> 00:25:13.260 marketization of higher education. 323 00:25:13.260 --> 00:25:17.570 And all these things I think are philosophy is definitely something 324 00:25:17.570 --> 00:25:22.360 we should keep as part of teacher education also in order to resist 325 00:25:22.360 --> 00:25:27.490 and deal with with what is being imposed on us. 326 00:25:27.490 --> 00:25:34.300 If I dare to say thank you so much, actually I did. 327 00:25:34.300 --> 00:25:37.440 My next question is about the international trends. 328 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:39.440 I probably mentioned a couple. 329 00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:44.040 How do these international trends and pressures influence 330 00:25:44.040 --> 00:25:50.460 teacher education in your context? Who would like to start? 331 00:25:50.460 --> 00:25:53.020 332 00:25:53.020 --> 00:25:58.420 I think those who are who are most sensitive to international trends are not 333 00:25:58.420 --> 00:26:04.780 teachers in basic education, but but academics in universities. 334 00:26:04.780 --> 00:26:11.540 I think at universities are increasingly emphasising international publication 335 00:26:11.540 --> 00:26:19.500 and the evaluation orientation like the QS ranking and the like. 336 00:26:19.500 --> 00:26:27.470 So university academics the should be kept abreast with the international trend. 337 00:26:27.470 --> 00:26:32.830 So some international concepts or frameworks like education for sustainable 338 00:26:32.830 --> 00:26:38.170 development, STEM education somebody referred to this morning. 339 00:26:38.170 --> 00:26:45.430 And also the cultivation of global citizenship was firstly reflected 340 00:26:45.430 --> 00:26:49.970 in teacher education curriculum and teaching. 341 00:26:49.970 --> 00:26:52.520 342 00:26:52.520 --> 00:26:59.740 And teaching practises in universities affecting student teachers and then 343 00:26:59.740 --> 00:27:06.750 gradually into the teaching practise of basic education. 344 00:27:06.750 --> 00:27:12.710 Thank you for pointing to the critical academic teacher educators. 345 00:27:12.710 --> 00:27:15.290 I think we have huge responsibility. 346 00:27:15.290 --> 00:27:19.030 Yes, it here and we spoke about criticality yesterday. 347 00:27:19.030 --> 00:27:21.350 What does it mean to be critical? 348 00:27:21.350 --> 00:27:27.740 I think, yeah, I think the teacher educators should be critically reflect upon 349 00:27:27.740 --> 00:27:34.260 the concepts of frameworks from different cultural background and to integrate 350 00:27:34.260 --> 00:27:39.250 these terms, terminologies into your own cultural context. 351 00:27:39.250 --> 00:27:43.270 But it doesn't mean that teacher educators should keep the 352 00:27:43.270 --> 00:27:46.910 international influence outside the classroom. 353 00:27:46.910 --> 00:27:52.450 I think they should introduce these global educational issues into their teaching 354 00:27:52.450 --> 00:28:00.730 practise to spark ideas, to initiate discussions and reflections. 355 00:28:00.730 --> 00:28:07.760 Yeah, absolutely finding the balance enhance between between the two. 356 00:28:07.760 --> 00:28:11.380 Krishna, would you like to continue? 357 00:28:11.380 --> 00:28:13.320 So 358 00:28:13.320 --> 00:28:15.880 I don't know where to start from the question. 359 00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:17.760 See, 360 00:28:17.760 --> 00:28:25.160 India is country of very mixed realities and we are still struggling with basic 361 00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:32.370 literacy and numeracy and and we have a world that aspires to keep abreast with 362 00:28:32.370 --> 00:28:36.390 international research, teacher education research. 363 00:28:36.390 --> 00:28:43.640 And so these are ends of the spectrum for us. 364 00:28:43.640 --> 00:28:51.880 I feel there is an intellectualization which can be an escape 365 00:28:51.880 --> 00:28:58.560 through seeking answers from the world outside because you know, the better 366 00:28:58.560 --> 00:29:03.980 technology, better facilities, better insights, better systems. 367 00:29:03.980 --> 00:29:08.020 But lot of knowledge that has to be generated about the change, 368 00:29:08.020 --> 00:29:10.900 social change and education has to be from within. 369 00:29:10.900 --> 00:29:14.420 And I suppose that's something we need to keep working hard at. 370 00:29:14.420 --> 00:29:16.770 Well, quite far from it. 371 00:29:16.770 --> 00:29:22.050 And I'm talking about nothing that I say will be one monochrome 372 00:29:22.050 --> 00:29:25.150 description of place like India, unfortunately. 373 00:29:25.150 --> 00:29:29.410 So whatever I say, you can always be sure there's an exception to what I'm saying. 374 00:29:29.410 --> 00:29:32.660 So in some sense, 375 00:29:32.660 --> 00:29:36.960 I come from university where people are quite well educated and come from 376 00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:43.010 quite privileged backgrounds also and who have access to international 377 00:29:43.010 --> 00:29:46.590 work and that does influence our thinking and talking. 378 00:29:46.590 --> 00:29:51.470 Sometimes it trickles down in bad ways to policy and also to the classroom. 379 00:29:51.470 --> 00:29:57.080 Many people will talk about learning centeredness. 380 00:29:57.080 --> 00:30:00.650 Yeah, and it gets very confused. 381 00:30:00.650 --> 00:30:03.130 Sorry, not learning centerdness, learner centeredness. 382 00:30:03.130 --> 00:30:10.060 And I feel like somewhere it has become very indulging of young people. 383 00:30:10.060 --> 00:30:12.110 How many people are going to catch me out and kill me? 384 00:30:12.110 --> 00:30:16.380 But I feel there is we should change the language around this. 385 00:30:16.380 --> 00:30:21.440 For example, what if the topography is, that there is no centre? 386 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:27.930 What if there is the landscape of learning and the learner, the teacher, the society, 387 00:30:27.930 --> 00:30:31.430 the parents, their aspirations, they're all part of this game, right? 388 00:30:31.430 --> 00:30:33.610 Why is it that it has to be teacher centred or learner centred? 389 00:30:33.610 --> 00:30:36.890 I mean, why does it have to be, you know, one thing or the other? 390 00:30:36.890 --> 00:30:40.630 That topographical description itself doesn't suit me anymore 391 00:30:40.630 --> 00:30:42.670 given the nature of my country, right? 392 00:30:42.670 --> 00:30:46.890 So questions like this keep coming up. You were talking about. 393 00:30:46.890 --> 00:30:48.750 I was talking with you this morning. 394 00:30:48.750 --> 00:30:50.800 Teacher autonomy is big deal, right? 395 00:30:50.800 --> 00:30:55.080 Yeah, it is necessary condition, but it's not sufficient condition. 396 00:30:55.080 --> 00:30:59.220 Yeah, there will be chaos in parts of India, if you give teacher 397 00:30:59.220 --> 00:31:01.480 autonomy because they don't want to do with it. 398 00:31:01.480 --> 00:31:05.140 Autonomy comes from informed decision making, right? 399 00:31:05.140 --> 00:31:08.200 You make choices based on certain kinds of information. 400 00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:10.180 Many teachers are not professional teachers. 401 00:31:10.180 --> 00:31:14.080 They're just executive technicians in the country and we 402 00:31:14.080 --> 00:31:16.970 need it and given the context of the country. 403 00:31:16.970 --> 00:31:21.530 So these are the questions that come to me when, you know, when I look at international 404 00:31:21.530 --> 00:31:25.310 research, when I look at that influencing our thinking. 405 00:31:25.310 --> 00:31:32.750 I think there has to be capacity to talk to what if in our own context. 406 00:31:32.750 --> 00:31:37.120 And from there, that's as much as I can see. Absolutely. Thank you. 407 00:31:37.120 --> 00:31:39.160 Thank you so much, Krishna. 408 00:31:39.160 --> 00:31:41.310 409 00:31:41.310 --> 00:31:49.940 On international influences, yes, I want to add that Rwanda is making an effort to 410 00:31:49.940 --> 00:31:59.000 integrate some international influences such. As for example, the 21st century skills 411 00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:07.200 into the ways teaching is taking place, 21st century skills and some of them we 412 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:13.780 have like critical thinking, technology, collaboration and so on. 413 00:32:13.780 --> 00:32:22.080 And it is very difficult to arrive and achieve 414 00:32:22.080 --> 00:32:30.350 these skills because those who might have suggested these skills have 415 00:32:30.350 --> 00:32:32.680 different context. 416 00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:40.390 And we don't have enough resources to be able to achieve these skills. 417 00:32:40.390 --> 00:32:44.690 And this is a very big challenge. Yes, thank you. 418 00:32:44.690 --> 00:32:49.970 And you might also want to ask whether these skills are relevant in all contexts. 419 00:32:49.970 --> 00:32:54.830 Exactly, the resistance I was referring to. 420 00:32:54.830 --> 00:33:01.350 Why should we accept everything that comes from somewhere? 421 00:33:01.350 --> 00:33:06.990 This panel is one of the activities of the Global Innovation Network 422 00:33:06.990 --> 00:33:10.610 for Teaching and Learning, known as the GINTL that's has been coming 423 00:33:10.610 --> 00:33:13.250 popping up throughout the the seminar. 424 00:33:13.250 --> 00:33:21.910 And our, our purpose and reason to exist as network is to advance 425 00:33:21.910 --> 00:33:27.690 international partnerships between higher education institutions in the three 426 00:33:27.690 --> 00:33:31.900 global, global regions and our small country of of Finland. 427 00:33:31.900 --> 00:33:37.240 Our government has considered it is important for Finnish universities to engage 428 00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:42.340 globally with, with, with universities in the area of education. 429 00:33:42.340 --> 00:33:50.800 So my question to you is, how do you see international partnerships and how can they support 430 00:33:50.800 --> 00:33:56.260 your work as teacher educators and as teacher education institutions? 431 00:33:56.260 --> 00:34:00.540 What is there, that these kinds of partnerships and travelling 432 00:34:00.540 --> 00:34:05.350 back, back and forth could, can give to us? 433 00:34:05.350 --> 00:34:09.660 Maybe it's Barthelemy's turn to start. 434 00:34:09.660 --> 00:34:14.010 I think the collaboration already is good start. 435 00:34:14.010 --> 00:34:22.450 And if it can be strengthened, strengthened in terms of practicality, and 436 00:34:22.450 --> 00:34:31.880 maybe if powerful countries can help our countries and 437 00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:40.570 build institutions that can channel education in order to facilitate, 438 00:34:40.570 --> 00:34:48.590 for example, students from our parts to come and study and go back to our countries, that kind of 439 00:34:48.590 --> 00:34:51.750 partnership can be fruitful. 440 00:34:51.750 --> 00:35:00.440 So you would like to have larger scale for it for, for activities like like this, 441 00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:07.000 yes, but also funding students to study because we don't have many PhD 442 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:15.420 students, many masters students and if they can get scholarships to 443 00:35:15.420 --> 00:35:22.170 to improve their abilities, this can boost our countries. 444 00:35:22.170 --> 00:35:26.650 I think mobility is the best, known context 445 00:35:26.650 --> 00:35:29.730 for international higher education. 446 00:35:29.730 --> 00:35:33.430 And we have lot of examples, especially from China and India. 447 00:35:33.430 --> 00:35:37.110 And what about Wang Xinghua, what happens in that area. 448 00:35:37.110 --> 00:35:40.300 How about, how do you think this kind 449 00:35:40.300 --> 00:35:42.250 of partnerships can support your work? 450 00:35:42.250 --> 00:35:48.510 Yeah, I think many problems in early childhood education are global problems, 451 00:35:48.510 --> 00:35:56.240 such as the shortage of quality workforce and the low income care service 452 00:35:56.240 --> 00:36:00.080 educators or early care service educators. 453 00:36:00.080 --> 00:36:03.900 So I think there are valuable experiences from other 454 00:36:03.900 --> 00:36:07.520 countries that China can learn from. 455 00:36:07.520 --> 00:36:11.290 For example, as far as I know in Finland master degree 456 00:36:11.290 --> 00:36:16.350 is required to be a basic educator. 457 00:36:16.350 --> 00:36:24.670 And in China, in recent years, increasing number of master students are going to 458 00:36:24.670 --> 00:36:29.810 to be teachers in kindergartens in primary and secondary schools. 459 00:36:29.810 --> 00:36:36.130 So I think this is something we learn from international experiences. 460 00:36:36.130 --> 00:36:42.150 And also as second point, I would like to provide the example of our institute. 461 00:36:42.150 --> 00:36:49.030 We build some collaborations with international preschools in, for example in Norway, 462 00:36:49.030 --> 00:36:56.450 in Canada, in Germany, and we want to enhance the student teachers mobility, so they 463 00:36:56.450 --> 00:37:00.750 have the opportunities to do some internships in other countries. 464 00:37:00.750 --> 00:37:08.170 So one of our master students, after her internship in Norway, she decided 465 00:37:08.170 --> 00:37:15.330 to take the topic of the teachers conceptualization of safety as her Master 466 00:37:15.330 --> 00:37:18.510 thesis as the topic of her Master thesis. 467 00:37:18.510 --> 00:37:26.000 Because during her internship she realised that teachers in these two countries, they had 468 00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:32.710 very different conceptualization of safety of what are safe, what are unsafe. 469 00:37:32.710 --> 00:37:39.190 The Norwegian teachers, they see Chinese parents riding bicycle with their children sitting 470 00:37:39.190 --> 00:37:47.310 on the back seat without have helmet see that as very dangerous and unsafe. 471 00:37:47.310 --> 00:37:54.730 But for Chinese teachers, they see the Norwegian king, Norwegian kindergarten, 472 00:37:54.730 --> 00:37:58.910 the children in Norwegian kindergartens, they're doing some really play 473 00:37:58.910 --> 00:38:03.030 like climbing or zip lining in forest. 474 00:38:03.030 --> 00:38:06.590 And this is unbelievable for Chinese teachers. 475 00:38:06.590 --> 00:38:10.150 So it's really an interesting topic. 476 00:38:10.150 --> 00:38:15.550 So I think this is what we learned from international mobility. 477 00:38:15.550 --> 00:38:19.470 I think that's wonderfully concrete example to look 478 00:38:19.470 --> 00:38:23.740 into certain topic in very different contexts. 479 00:38:23.740 --> 00:38:28.380 Opens up your your understanding terms to it. 480 00:38:28.380 --> 00:38:30.180 Krishna? 481 00:38:30.180 --> 00:38:34.910 Yeah, of course, agreeing with whatever both of them have said, 482 00:38:34.910 --> 00:38:39.040 but I feel like all good friendship, come home. 483 00:38:39.040 --> 00:38:44.310 I mean, come see us and we'll come and see you and you'll see the various conditions in 484 00:38:44.310 --> 00:38:49.460 which education happens in India as I think there's, that's the first thing. 485 00:38:49.460 --> 00:38:51.430 We don't even know each other's lives. 486 00:38:51.430 --> 00:38:55.070 And finally, we are very similar and finally we are very different. 487 00:38:55.070 --> 00:39:01.300 And I think for any kind of learning from each other, like they do in my part of the 488 00:39:01.300 --> 00:39:08.110 world, come home, eat my food and visit my school and see what happens. 489 00:39:08.110 --> 00:39:10.230 And 490 00:39:10.230 --> 00:39:14.050 I feel there's lot we take from the international community, 491 00:39:14.050 --> 00:39:18.330 we take lot from the Finnish education system. 492 00:39:18.330 --> 00:39:21.910 But I feel it's misplaced until and unless we understand the context, 493 00:39:21.910 --> 00:39:26.090 they, they look like fancy ideas that we need to kind of replicate 494 00:39:26.090 --> 00:39:29.190 and they make no sense in certain contexts. 495 00:39:29.190 --> 00:39:34.310 And therefore, we need intelligent revaluation of those 496 00:39:34.310 --> 00:39:43.010 ideas in the context that we come from. 497 00:39:43.010 --> 00:39:47.770 Yeah, I think we need more people going to different places in the 498 00:39:47.770 --> 00:39:51.110 country, in the world to see how education happens there. 499 00:39:51.110 --> 00:39:56.070 And I think you're doing that in many ways, more of it would be good. 500 00:39:56.070 --> 00:40:00.590 Yeah. I would like to add something small. 501 00:40:00.590 --> 00:40:02.590 502 00:40:02.590 --> 00:40:11.450 I liked very much the Finnish system where education is free for all. 503 00:40:11.450 --> 00:40:14.840 I think this can save humanity. 504 00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:20.740 If education was free for all everywhere, I think we would have less 505 00:40:20.740 --> 00:40:30.500 wars because most of the causes of the wars are ignorance and 506 00:40:30.500 --> 00:40:35.150 not only cognitive ignorance but moral ignorance. 507 00:40:35.150 --> 00:40:42.880 And this can be achieved by free universal education. 508 00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:51.010 If these kinds of gatherings can continue to bring together people 509 00:40:51.010 --> 00:40:59.040 from different places, this can be materialised in other 510 00:40:59.040 --> 00:41:02.200 parts of the world where this is not the case. 511 00:41:02.200 --> 00:41:06.960 Because when education is not a priority, people are in competition. 512 00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:09.980 They can kill each other, they can harm each other. 513 00:41:09.980 --> 00:41:16.000 But when education is free, they are all empowered to live together. 514 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:18.520 Because living together is a good idea. 515 00:41:18.520 --> 00:41:22.000 But if you are not empowered to live together, but for example, if I'm 516 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:25.630 hungry and you asked me to live together with you, you are eating every 517 00:41:25.630 --> 00:41:30.850 day, how, how am I going to to be peaceful with you? 518 00:41:30.850 --> 00:41:32.850 So this is just an example. 519 00:41:32.850 --> 00:41:36.630 Another example is teacher autonomy. 520 00:41:36.630 --> 00:41:39.230 It comes as result of free education. 521 00:41:39.230 --> 00:41:47.430 Also, if you have been educated and they trust in you, this really can make classes enjoyable 522 00:41:47.430 --> 00:41:53.200 instead of, for seeing all classes to follow the same programme. 523 00:41:53.200 --> 00:41:57.340 It looks like the other image I saw yesterday from the presentation 524 00:41:57.340 --> 00:41:59.440 of student, master student. 525 00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:07.080 But if you force fish to climb tree, it will think all its life that it is stupid. 526 00:42:07.080 --> 00:42:11.070 Thank you. 527 00:42:11.070 --> 00:42:14.350 I think you let us do the to the next question. 528 00:42:14.350 --> 00:42:21.480 Now this is your time and your opportunity to visit Finland 529 00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:26.140 and there will be there will be opportunities for people from here to visit 530 00:42:26.140 --> 00:42:31.410 your respective, your respective institutions. 531 00:42:31.410 --> 00:42:36.090 Apart from the free education and teacher autonomy that Barthelemy mentioned, 532 00:42:36.090 --> 00:42:41.230 is there something that you have been fascinated by in the Finnish education 533 00:42:41.230 --> 00:42:47.700 and especially teacher education that you think could be somehow worth we're 534 00:42:47.700 --> 00:42:58.410 thinking and considering in your own context? 535 00:42:58.410 --> 00:43:01.510 I think I have answered to that question. 536 00:43:01.510 --> 00:43:03.920 So let me pass on to Wang Xinghua. 537 00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:08.270 Yeah, I think some has also been talked in my previous responding 538 00:43:08.270 --> 00:43:13.190 to your questions, but here I'd like to share example. 539 00:43:13.190 --> 00:43:18.110 I recently have been working on the project in collaboration with colleagues 540 00:43:18.110 --> 00:43:23.880 from the University of Turku, Helsinki and University of Oulu. 541 00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:32.170 So this study was mainly about student teachers internship experiences 542 00:43:32.170 --> 00:43:40.530 aim to explore how to provide quality guidance or mentorship to students during their internship. 543 00:43:40.530 --> 00:43:45.350 So I really learned lot from the finished model of co-mentoring. 544 00:43:45.350 --> 00:43:50.970 So in this co-mentoring model, the student teacher together with tutor 545 00:43:50.970 --> 00:43:55.650 from the university and mentor from the kindergartens. 546 00:43:55.650 --> 00:44:03.550 So they have their logs together to reflect upon some critical incidents during 547 00:44:03.550 --> 00:44:07.730 the the student teacher encountered during her internship. 548 00:44:07.730 --> 00:44:12.270 So I think this is really a nice model to learn from. 549 00:44:12.270 --> 00:44:20.290 And I also tried to implement this group mentoring model in my country when I was 550 00:44:20.290 --> 00:44:24.540 supervising my student teachers to do internship in kindergartens. 551 00:44:24.540 --> 00:44:27.640 Yeah, thank you for another very concrete example. 552 00:44:27.640 --> 00:44:32.690 And I think this reminds us how important it is to go beyond visiting back and forth. 553 00:44:32.690 --> 00:44:37.630 We can, get excited about things, might be exposed to something briefly, 554 00:44:37.630 --> 00:44:44.550 but then in order to actually put something to work requires longer collaboration 555 00:44:44.550 --> 00:44:51.620 and critical reflections, maybe joint research and so on before we can actually apply 556 00:44:51.620 --> 00:44:53.760 something new in our context. 557 00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:59.400 But maybe this, this kind of even brief visits can be good start that stimulates 558 00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:04.910 our our thinking and make us aware of opportunities. 559 00:45:04.910 --> 00:45:14.650 Yeah, Krishna. Yesterday was it, 560 00:45:14.650 --> 00:45:18.370 Yesterday, must be day before yesterday. 561 00:45:18.370 --> 00:45:25.920 Actually I can't tell there's and nights are smudging. 562 00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:29.190 You were talking about professional practise. 563 00:45:29.190 --> 00:45:31.000 Pasi? 564 00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:34.860 Pasi. he was talking about how visiting schools every year in your 565 00:45:34.860 --> 00:45:38.630 programme and the teacher education programme, you're kind of reframing 566 00:45:38.630 --> 00:45:40.600 your curriculum to make that possible. 567 00:45:40.600 --> 00:45:48.220 So that's been on our minds that teacher education is not about learning lot of perspectives 568 00:45:48.220 --> 00:45:52.720 and theories and then going and practising it and then finding that it's not working and 569 00:45:52.720 --> 00:45:55.080 then getting disillusioned and then starting all over again. 570 00:45:55.080 --> 00:46:01.480 I think there has to be give and take between practise and thinking about practise. 571 00:46:01.480 --> 00:46:04.900 It just struck me as you were talking that when we talk about different contexts 572 00:46:04.900 --> 00:46:12.590 of practise, so it's good to definitely spend time actually teaching for Finnish 573 00:46:12.590 --> 00:46:15.840 teacher education students in the schools. 574 00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:18.110 You have your lab schools, I think, right? 575 00:46:18.110 --> 00:46:20.060 So it's good to do that. 576 00:46:20.060 --> 00:46:24.880 But what would it feel like for them to actually teach in completely different context 577 00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:28.740 for month, come to India teaching a government school and see what happens. 578 00:46:28.740 --> 00:46:32.800 And similarly for our students, they can actually come here and spend 579 00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:39.610 month in teaching in school here and see how that works. 580 00:46:39.610 --> 00:46:42.180 That was something that crossed my mind. 581 00:46:42.180 --> 00:46:46.790 I'm also curious about many things, though I've kind of sufficiently 582 00:46:46.790 --> 00:46:48.930 hopped about context and all that. 583 00:46:48.930 --> 00:46:50.790 I'm quite curious how you achieve some of these things 584 00:46:50.790 --> 00:46:52.980 here. I went to the Yellow Library. 585 00:46:52.980 --> 00:46:55.250 Abi, Is that what it's called? 586 00:46:55.250 --> 00:46:58.690 Yellow Library, The main library. The bustling one. 587 00:46:58.690 --> 00:47:02.110 So I don't know how you achieve that. 588 00:47:02.110 --> 00:47:06.210 Students at 7:00 in the cold evening are sitting there and actually studying. 589 00:47:06.210 --> 00:47:11.880 I mean, what's wrong with you? 590 00:47:11.880 --> 00:47:14.160 I would like to see that. 591 00:47:14.160 --> 00:47:18.180 I would like to see that level of autonomy and excitement about learning. 592 00:47:18.180 --> 00:47:21.930 And I would like to talk about how you inspire your people to become teachers. 593 00:47:21.930 --> 00:47:25.640 I know teaching is much more lucrative job here, at least more respectable, in India 594 00:47:25.640 --> 00:47:27.440 it is not. 595 00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:29.530 So we need to figure out, how to do that first. 596 00:47:29.530 --> 00:47:33.080 So these are the questions I have and I would like to take these 597 00:47:33.080 --> 00:47:35.660 away with me. Isn't that the question? Yes. 598 00:47:35.660 --> 00:47:37.460 Yeah. 599 00:47:37.460 --> 00:47:39.630 OK, after my answer, I'm asking you what the question is. 600 00:47:39.630 --> 00:47:44.710 Yes, wonderful questions after very short few days in this context, few 601 00:47:44.710 --> 00:47:48.690 observations on what is happening around at the university. 602 00:47:48.690 --> 00:47:53.260 So maybe this comes to the point of getting inspired and 603 00:47:53.260 --> 00:47:56.800 being able to ask new kinds of questions. Absolutely. 604 00:47:56.800 --> 00:48:02.530 But at the core we essentially do the same work with similar 605 00:48:02.530 --> 00:48:05.520 values are to large extent and so on. 606 00:48:05.520 --> 00:48:11.470 But it's it's more about understanding what's behind the practises and what makes something 607 00:48:11.470 --> 00:48:18.600 work and what might work somewhere else, but and why it may not, may not do so. 608 00:48:18.600 --> 00:48:23.400 Before I open the floor for the audience, you can already 609 00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:26.280 start thinking about questions to the panellists. 610 00:48:26.280 --> 00:48:29.680 I want to ask one final question. 611 00:48:29.680 --> 00:48:31.640 This is traditional one. 612 00:48:31.640 --> 00:48:38.020 How do you see the future of teacher education in your in your context? 613 00:48:38.020 --> 00:48:43.430 You can talk about different scenarios or simply what are how 614 00:48:43.430 --> 00:48:52.030 do you see the prospects for the future? 615 00:48:52.030 --> 00:48:56.050 OK, for the future. 616 00:48:56.050 --> 00:49:04.240 I think most students should be trained in philosophy because with 617 00:49:04.240 --> 00:49:13.360 philosophy you will be brought to become autonomous independent thinker. 618 00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:21.440 And if you are an autonomous, independent thinker, you will not need teacher to teach 619 00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:27.520 you how to adapt, but you will do it by yourself by becoming your own teacher. 620 00:49:27.520 --> 00:49:32.880 Yes, wonderful. 621 00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:41.180 I think the declining birth rate has important implications for early childhood education, 622 00:49:41.180 --> 00:49:48.000 and in China we have so-called dual system for early childhood education. 623 00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:56.650 So we have infants and toddlers and three years they will be in child care services 624 00:49:56.650 --> 00:50:00.980 under the responsibility of the National Health sector. 625 00:50:00.980 --> 00:50:06.170 But for children aged three to six years, they will be into kindergarten. 626 00:50:06.170 --> 00:50:11.630 So preschools under the responsibility of the Ministry of Education. 627 00:50:11.630 --> 00:50:18.300 So because of the low birth rate, now many kindergarten teachers are facing 628 00:50:18.300 --> 00:50:25.290 the problem to change their jobs and the greatest possibility is they will 629 00:50:25.290 --> 00:50:30.130 be childcare educators for infants and toddlers. 630 00:50:30.130 --> 00:50:34.910 So I think how to train these teachers, this kindergarten teachers, the be 631 00:50:34.910 --> 00:50:40.060 healthcare educators is big challenge in some time to come. 632 00:50:40.060 --> 00:50:41.970 Yeah, absolutely. 633 00:50:41.970 --> 00:50:44.350 And considering the scale of scale of things in China, 634 00:50:44.350 --> 00:50:47.130 this is massive, massive reform. Yeah. 635 00:50:47.130 --> 00:50:54.940 It's ahead of you. Yeah, how about Krishna? 636 00:50:54.940 --> 00:51:00.190 Yeah, the hope for the future is that 637 00:51:00.190 --> 00:51:04.310 more and more people become teachers in the first place in India and 638 00:51:04.310 --> 00:51:07.870 take it seriously so that they get qualified to teach. 639 00:51:07.870 --> 00:51:09.990 This is our first challenge. 640 00:51:09.990 --> 00:51:18.760 The hope is that many people will want to go out and teach the people who need the 641 00:51:18.760 --> 00:51:28.620 education, not just where the market is as land of diversity and inequality. 642 00:51:28.620 --> 00:51:33.260 A lot goes away from the people who really need it. 643 00:51:33.260 --> 00:51:36.770 So even the people who come from that background end up going elsewhere. 644 00:51:36.770 --> 00:51:39.480 And there are very few who go back to teach in their own 645 00:51:39.480 --> 00:51:41.460 villages and in their own government schools. 646 00:51:41.460 --> 00:51:43.310 And that's the need of the hour. 647 00:51:43.310 --> 00:51:45.630 That's, I hope the future of. 648 00:51:45.630 --> 00:51:50.540 India because we have massive school going population with single 649 00:51:50.540 --> 00:51:54.140 teachers, no second classrooms and whatnot. 650 00:51:54.140 --> 00:51:58.930 And I and I think that's the need of the hour and I hope the future will be 651 00:51:58.930 --> 00:52:05.070 shining in that direction rather than rather than anything else. 652 00:52:05.070 --> 00:52:11.680 I would like to add something if I may, please. 653 00:52:11.680 --> 00:52:13.480 654 00:52:13.480 --> 00:52:19.880 Using the example of WhatsApp for example, if you are not connected, what happens? 655 00:52:19.880 --> 00:52:24.150 You continue seeing your former messages, but when 656 00:52:24.150 --> 00:52:28.160 you get connected you see new messages. 657 00:52:28.160 --> 00:52:36.310 I use this image to say that we should familiarise our students, our 658 00:52:36.310 --> 00:52:43.410 schools, our classes to remain connected to other systems, like the way we 659 00:52:43.410 --> 00:52:48.410 came here, and maybe you came there and you will come again. 660 00:52:48.410 --> 00:52:55.540 And if we remain connected as web of educators. 661 00:52:55.540 --> 00:53:02.140 I think we shall be up to date and nothing will escape from us. 662 00:53:02.140 --> 00:53:08.670 Yes, this collaboration through dialogue, through compassion 663 00:53:08.670 --> 00:53:11.530 and empathy towards each others. 664 00:53:11.530 --> 00:53:15.500 It's not just a question of sharing knowledge, but 665 00:53:15.500 --> 00:53:20.450 question of sharing our deep humanity. Absolutely. 666 00:53:20.450 --> 00:53:23.250 And that's so fundamental it at at all levels. 667 00:53:23.250 --> 00:53:28.870 It, it starts from talking to your colleagues more and then engaging, 668 00:53:28.870 --> 00:53:32.670 engaging with colleagues from across the world, enabling your students 669 00:53:32.670 --> 00:53:35.810 to learn about different realities and so on. 670 00:53:35.810 --> 00:53:40.690 So I think it's wonderful note to to finish with, and this maybe 671 00:53:40.690 --> 00:53:47.060 gives us some hope that we need for, for the work. Thank you so much for the panellists.